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Finally weighing in...

Obama? Yay.

Democratic Senate gains? Yay.

Democratic house gains? Yay.

I'm going to send a letter, though, to my representative, my senators and the democratic leadership. Don't squander this chance. Don't make this into the first two years of the Carter administration. Don't make this into the first two years of the Clinton administration. Don't make this into the first two years of the second W administration (he had it his way in 2004-2006, or he should have). Come together. Work on reform. Work with the moderate Republicans; some of them have good ideas and might agree with you on some things. Drive legislation.

Prop 8? Not so yay. There's an estimated 3,000,000 uncounted mail-in and provisional ballots, though. There's still a slim chance that the proposition could be defeated if those ballots skew the right direction.

If you voted "yes" on Prop 8, you voted to end my marriage. I will not forgive that.

If you are crying in your beer about Prop 8's likely passage, and were eligible to vote in California but didn't vote against it, Prop 8's victory is your fault. I will not forgive that.

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
howlgirl
Nov. 5th, 2008 08:02 pm (UTC)
The joy of Obama's win last night has turned to ashes today.

I voted no on 8, for more friends than I can count.
bovil
Nov. 5th, 2008 08:07 pm (UTC)
My hope-level on Prop 8 was a bit low to start out. I think the campaign was piss-poor, hewing way to close to the "yes" campaign's arguments and not making its own points.
jkusters
Nov. 5th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
Much though I appreciate what they tried to do, the "No On 8" campaign was entirely reactionary. They never took charge of the argument. And while I can't guarantee that was what cost us the election, I can't believe it didn't play a part.
gigica
Nov. 5th, 2008 08:11 pm (UTC)
I voted No on 8. And today all I can think about is you and Kevin.
(Deleted comment)
yourbob
Nov. 6th, 2008 12:49 am (UTC)
LOL. That exact same argument was made on the San Francisco NPR show today! I liked it.
hockeycat
Nov. 6th, 2008 01:02 am (UTC)
I like your thinking, dear sir!
jkusters
Nov. 5th, 2008 08:15 pm (UTC)
Yep.
chris_sawyer
Nov. 5th, 2008 08:17 pm (UTC)
It felt very good voting against that shit.

The christian guy here at work is very subdued today.

He's black, and I know he was voting Obama. I can't help that he might be feeling guilty about voting for prop hate.
theresamather
Nov. 5th, 2008 09:24 pm (UTC)
I'm very sad, especially that so many people in my state who should have known full well about discrimination over marriage issues contributed to this nasty campaign in your state.

nebula5
Nov. 5th, 2008 09:43 pm (UTC)
If I could have voted as a non-California-resident, you know how I would have voted. Although actually, from a distance, I assumed it would fail with no trouble, so I was extremely disappointed to see it passing. I don't understand why so many people would vote so irrationally.
madoc62
Nov. 5th, 2008 10:32 pm (UTC)
Andy & all,

Well, my "No On 8" is amongst those three million absentee ballots.

Also, there's this to consider:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_11_02-2008_11_08.shtml#1225923130

Basically, he advances the argument that the "Yes On 8" proposition is invalid on its face as it is actually and _AMENDMENT_ to the state's constitution and not a revision. Thus it is illegal per the state's constitution.

Drop on over there and check out his arguments in support of this view.

It might take a while to hammer through the courts but at least it's something to pursue.

Madoc
bovil
Nov. 5th, 2008 10:41 pm (UTC)
Already knew about that.

There are several arguments that were brought before the courts when 8 qualified. The courts, doing what courts do, were loath to address the issue while Prop 8 wasn't settled, and at the time dismissed the suits, noting that they could be brought again should the measure pass.

I don't have a lot of faith that mail-in ballots are going to skew too differently from yesterday's returns. Still, the margin is tight and the uncounted ballots are many.
rinolj
Nov. 5th, 2008 11:15 pm (UTC)
Yes, there's now an ACLU writ-petition before the CA Supreme Court to that effect. The press release is worth reading, primarily for paragraphs 2-4, which state in plain English why revising (as opposed to amending) the state constitution cannot and should not be done merely by passing an initiative on a bare majority vote.

It's an important point to get laymen, non-lawyers, to understand and see as being reasonable, else this will be portrayed as attempting to thwart democratic process.

(And sure, of course I voted "no".)

Also, time to get all those existing "traditional" marriages (including mine) tested to see if they're verifiably between "one man and one woman" according to some judge's criteria for what those words mean, nei? (Yeah, I know, ex post facto. However, I think we should insist on Prop. 8's criteria be applied to all new "traditional" marriages, good and hard.)
rinolj
Nov. 8th, 2008 01:09 am (UTC)
Just a brief correction: "ex post facto" is a valid objection to retroactive law on criminal matters, but not civil. So, unfortunately, existing CA gay marriages could be ruled nullified or converted to civil union, etc. (about which, see the Volokh discussion).

Anyway, as mentioned, for tactical reasons, I think it's vital that straight marriages be also tested against Prop. 8's criterion. Somehow, I suspect 10,000 or so "traditional" marriages getting nullified would have a salubrious political effect.
kaijugal
Nov. 5th, 2008 10:48 pm (UTC)

My mind boggles at this leap back.

:(

Best wishes that it will all work out favourably somehow
for you and your beau.
karisu_sama
Nov. 6th, 2008 12:25 am (UTC)
I've got your back...
If you voted "yes" on Prop 8, you voted to end my marriage. I will not forgive that.

If you are crying in your beer about Prop 8's likely passage, and were eligible to vote in California but didn't vote against it, Prop 8's victory is your fault. I will not forgive that.


I will not forgive that either.
hockeycat
Nov. 6th, 2008 12:59 am (UTC)
I am not in CA, but I voted against Prop 8's equivalent (Prop 102) here in AZ. Unfortunately, Prop 102 passed here, too.

I think it's a crock of bull. Yes, I am very happily married myself. Why shouldn't you & K be afforded the same rights? How does your right to be legally joined affect my right to the same? It doesn't. But people are dumbf*cks, and can't tell their heads from their arses.

/sigh

I am sorry, I really am.
semy_of_pearls
Nov. 6th, 2008 10:17 pm (UTC)
I did vote.

I voted against Prop 8. So did my mother, and she is Catholic.

I am willing to sign petitions to repeal prop 8 as unconstitutional and a threat to civil rights.

I am in a heterosexual marriage and a mother. I find gay marriage to be a threat to neither.

This isn't over, and I'm willing to fight.
thirdworld
Nov. 7th, 2008 06:42 pm (UTC)
I'm with you. While this election was a milestone for black-white relations and the African American community at large, exit polls suggest that, as was projected before the election, Hispanics and African Americans voted mostly Yes and whites voted mostly no. So prejudice against one group is coming from other groups suffering prejudice - an age-old human condition. But my pleasure at these elections went down two thirds, after hearing about prop 8 - the only campaign I sent money to this year. 4 measures country-wide, all reinforcing prejudice. It's wrong and serves as a reminder to all those foolish Utopians out there, that this election is but a step on a much longer journey, and there is much still to be fought for.
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )