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Anticipation 2009 supporters!

It looks like Kansas City in 2009 really shot themselves in the feet with their botched attempt at hosting Smofcon 24.

The reports weren't good.

kevin_standlee reported on both the programming screw-up (attributing it at the time to the storm) and The Fannish Inquisition.

hazelchaz provided a bit more detail about the various problems.

There's also the things I've heard that people weren't willing to put online. It's not like Smofcon is easy to screw up; you've got a captive gang of conrunners, and most of them will help if something goes wrong.

Suffice it to say my waffling re: KC/Montreal has ended.

And then there's this week. Anticipation (Montreal) in 2009, the hoax bid that got too big for its britches, got the coveted Science Fiction/San Francisco endorsement (from editor johnnyeponymous, buried in the lettercol of Issue #37).

This inspired me to write my own passionate endorsement of Anticipation 2009 and submit it to johnnyeponymous for The Drink Tank.

I don't know if or when he's going to publish it, but it's The Drink Tank. I doubt that it would be refused.

It's a very Drink-Tankish essay.

So, if you're waffling over who to vote for in site selection this year, keep your eye on The Drink Tank. It might help you make up your mind.

Comments

( 42 comments — Leave a comment )
johnnyeponymous
Jan. 12th, 2007 11:34 pm (UTC)
If I hadn't just ziffed the last issue off to Bill, it would have been in issue 113.

I'm a big Montreal supporter and I'm already planning my trip (and how to convince Lloyd and Yvonne to make the trip from Etobicoke).

It'll be an interesting site selection. I'm buying my supporter soon so I can take part!

Chris
yourbob
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:13 am (UTC)
Is a con supporter anything like an athletic supporter.

Just asking.
bovil
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:20 am (UTC)
Yeah, but in this way.
yourbob
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:24 am (UTC)
Ah! More Fabulous!

I didn't QUITE fall off the chair when I clicked.
(no subject) - yourbob - Jan. 13th, 2007 12:29 am (UTC) - Expand
auroraceleste
Jan. 12th, 2007 11:36 pm (UTC)
I could point you to three or four past posts on my LJ of the wierdness of KC con planning. I just don't get it, fandom here seems clueless. The costuming convention (MasqueCon or some such) that's in KC the weekend after Costume Con in St. Louis is the most immediate example: no research into other cons of the like (they seemed truly surprised that someone else had come up with the idea), no clue that there were any other cons that might conflict, had never heard of the ICG, had no contact other than LARP groups and a ping to the 12-person KC Costume Yahoo group. Very disappointing, the cons here seem to be run on alcohol and faith. I dunno if it comes from the past bad con experience (something with lawsuits and people in prison) or what, but things here are very weird.
bovil
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:20 am (UTC)
The Midamericon (KC in 2009) folks are actually pretty well connected in midwest fandom and in conrunning circles. I've know a lot of them for years through the Iowa and Illinois conventions, and back from the big Minicons (I stopped going about 8 years ago when I moved to CA). I still see them nearly every year at Worldcon and (when they're bidding) Westercon. I'm kind of surprised that they blew Smofcon so badly.
jbriggs
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:16 am (UTC)
I don't think its as bad as all that, but SMOFcon did convince me that I actually do have to pre-support Montreal. Its no longer a KC cakewalk to Big Mac II, thats for sure.
johnnyeponymous
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:34 am (UTC)
It's interesting to watch the fortunes of Montreal's bid.

When I first heard about it, I asked around and everyone said they had no chance. About a year later, most had up-graded Montreal to 'a maybe' and then after SMoFCon, I was hearing 'Montreal's gonna win'.

If there's anything that the last site selection should teach us, it's that we have no idea who's gonna win until the final count. I was considered nuts for thinking that Denver was gonna take it from the beginning, but it happened.

The thing I love about the Montreal bid (other than Montreal itself and Spruce Beer) is that they're planning a bilingual con. To me, that's a great thing.
Chris
bovil
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC)
When they started, they were a hoax bid, and were just looking to pay for their party. 60 presups later, and they were serious.

They're one of the reasons that people are so scared of our hoaxes.
(no subject) - kevin_standlee - Jan. 13th, 2007 12:54 am (UTC) - Expand
bovil
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:35 am (UTC)
Realistically, I thought it was pretty much a wash between the two.

What The big factors I saw:

KC had a chance at the sympathy vote. They pulled out of one past bid when their hotels didn't materialize. They lost to LA in their most recent bid.

Montreal has the Canadian-Screw-Up factor to fight against, and they've got the "I'll vote against anything that John Mansfield is involved in" curse.

I could see those things swinging the win to KC.

Screwing up Smofcon chips away at KC's sympathy vote, and also chips away at the idea that they're not going to have the same kind of screw-ups that Calgary and Toronto had (because they had, in miniature, similar programming problems).

So where does that leave Montreal? They're not Toronto or Calgary, and (when I've asked specific questions and presented specific problems) Rene has been really good with specific answers on how they're planning to avoid the mistakes of the past, not just "We're not going to make the same mistakes." They've still got John Mansfield, but some people realize there's a difference between the real John Mansfield (difficult and abrasive as he can be) and the bogeyman that his serious detractors make him out to be.
kevin_standlee
Jan. 13th, 2007 12:57 am (UTC)
I wonder why I've never had any real difficulty with John. Yes, he can be a pain, but he's right most of the time. He works really hard, and the Worldcon he chaired was in one of the more isolated (for North America) locations and still turned out pretty well, I think. (I'm biased, as I was deputy chair.) Heck, it even had innovations like being the first Worldcon with a web site. (Alas, now lost forever.)
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 13th, 2007 01:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 16th, 2007 08:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 16th, 2007 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 16th, 2007 10:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
thirdworld
Jan. 13th, 2007 02:44 am (UTC)
Hmm. It is hard to speak out publicly, but to be fair the problems in KC do not reflect how the Worldcon would run because most of the staff will be from out of town. Also the problems were precisely because a Smofcon is so easy that only a few people run it and they take it less seriously, and a couple of issues have a disproportionate effect, particularly when program is affected.

City to City and Montreal wins, except on the expense end. I loved the city myself, but the Montreal bid has plenty of problems too. The local fan base is almost non-existent and the tiny local cons are not Worldcon compatible and will be barely involved anyway. Also, many of those involved are the same people who messed up Torcon III -- which is a big issue, particularly since those issues were not only at-con, but continued after the con. There are also signs that a go-it-alone approach is likely again and that's about the worst thing a Worldcon committee could have. There are more issues too. This is far from clear-cut to me.
bovil
Jan. 13th, 2007 03:36 am (UTC)
I used to be well-connected in midwest fandom; I lived in Milwaukee for 6 years and went to a lot of conventions in that time. As I mentioned to auroraceleste, who recently moved to KC, I've known many of these folks for over a decade. They were (and still are) regulars on the I-35 con circuit that includes KC, Des Moines and Minneapolis.

Rene headed program ops at Torcon and was one of the fixers who did a good job. From what I've seen from the Montreal bid, the folks who I saw actually causing the problems at Torcon aren't anywhere near the Montreal bid. Well, OK, Terry Fong is on the bid committee (and has a chance to show at Nippon07 whether or not he's learned the lessons of his mistakes in programming) and Peter Jarvis is on the bid committee (but from what I hear of board micromanagement, he was more saddled with problems that he wasn't allowed to do anything about rather than causing them).
thirdworld
Jan. 13th, 2007 04:16 am (UTC)
As I recall Program Ops was headed by tammylc at Torcon III and she is the one who did all the rescuing, not Rene (I was on her team, and I believe Rene was there too). Rene was Deputy Division Head of Program as a whole I believe. Rene seems a capital fellow though and I like him plenty. He was at ConQuesT selling pre-opposing memberships which is just fricking cool, you have to admit. However, as I have said to him personally in several conversations, on this bid I have many reservations. If I thought he would rule this Worldcon I might lose a couple of my reservations, but I doubt he will.
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 13th, 2007 07:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thirdworld - Jan. 15th, 2007 01:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 16th, 2007 09:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thirdworld - Jan. 16th, 2007 09:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 16th, 2007 10:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 16th, 2007 10:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thirdworld - Jan. 16th, 2007 11:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 17th, 2007 06:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 17th, 2007 07:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 17th, 2007 09:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 18th, 2007 01:51 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - thirdworld - Jan. 17th, 2007 05:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 17th, 2007 08:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
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boywhocantsayno
Jan. 13th, 2007 04:48 am (UTC)
Well, OK, Terry Fong is on the bid committee (and has a chance to show at Nippon07 whether or not he's learned the lessons of his mistakes in programming)

From talking to him, I think that he knows what his mistakes were (being in over his head and not knowing enough to ask for help early enough was the major one), and has an idea of what to do to correct them. As you say, we'll see how Nippon works out.

He and Rene keep trying to recruit me, FWIW. I keep resisting. ;) Not because of a lack of confidence - far from it. I just have enough going on at the moment and I don't want to find myself burning out. (I honestly don't know how I survived this year's experience of chairing one con and co-chairing another, three weeks apart. It might explain why I'm having so much trouble these days waking up on less than nine hours of sleep. ;) )

and Peter Jarvis is on the bid committee (but from what I hear of board micromanagement, he was more saddled with problems that he wasn't allowed to do anything about rather than causing them).

Yeah, Peter was pretty much a figurehead.

And FWIW, I've always gotten along with John Mansfield as well. I'm not exactly sure why. *grin* I get along fine with Linda as well.
(no subject) - bovil - Jan. 14th, 2007 03:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 16th, 2007 08:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - boywhocantsayno - Jan. 16th, 2007 09:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - marahsk - Jan. 16th, 2007 10:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
( 42 comments — Leave a comment )